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Thread: Intel Slips 10nm for the Third time?

  1. #11
    Admin Daniel Nenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty View Post
    Does anyone know if GF 12nm is similiar to TSMC 12nm, ie. an "optimised" 14nm with 6 track library? And if this is the case, how much work is it for to convert a 14nm 7/9 track tape out to 6 track?

    Edit: There is a new article at Anandtech, with far more details:GlobalFoundries Adds 12LP Process for Mainstream and Automotive Chips; AMD Planning 12LP CPUs & GPUs
    Seems like AMD's Zen is using 14nm HP, which is actually 12T and the new 12nm is 7.5T.
    That is a very good article, thanks for the link. The big difference here is that GF is making processes specifically for the AMD products. This has not happened since AMD owned their own fabs (32nm). Intel has always had this advantage of course. Apple and NVIDIA have this advantage at TSMC and that partially accounts for the industry leading products they have been releasing. Let's hope AMD follows suite.

    The real test will be 7nm and I truly hope AMD get's their chips out on time and exceeding expectations. If so the AMD stock should go through the roof. Especially if the latest rumors about Intel 10nm are true.

    The only 7nm downside is EUV. GF was not as positive as TSMC so that will be an interesting story to follow next year. After my last trip to Hsinchu I'm very confident TSMC will have 7nm (N7+) EUV out in time for the 2019 Apple products. I also believe current TSMC 7nm customers, which is just about every top semiconductor company, will move to N7+. It is easier to design to and you get a 1.2x density and a 10% performance or 20% power improvement. So hopefully GF will up their EUV game...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Nenni View Post
    I also believe current TSMC 7nm customers, which is just about every top semiconductor company, will move to N7+. It is easier to design to and you get a 1.2x density and a 10% performance or 20% power improvement.
    Apple, possibly Nvidia and?

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    Admin Daniel Nenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astilo View Post
    Apple, possibly Nvidia and?
    Xilinx, Broadcom, Huawei, MediaTek.... everyone except Qualcomm as they are back at Samsung. GF could be capacity constrained as well if the 7nm AMD parts take off.

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    It sounds like QCOM will be moving back to TSMC at 7nm.

    Qualcomm drops Samsung to work with TSMC at 7nm

    Although I'm not sure if I trust the source.

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    Quote Originally Posted by count View Post
    It sounds like QCOM will be moving back to TSMC at 7nm.

    Qualcomm drops Samsung to work with TSMC at 7nm

    Although I'm not sure if I trust the source.
    This is old news. QCOM moved from TSMC 20nm to Samsung 14nm and 10nm. QCOM moved back to TSMC 7nm and is now using Samsung 11nm and 8nm. QCOM has always bounced around foundries since the beginning of time. The SVP of QCOM was at the GF Conference this week so they are probably using GF as a second source.

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    I am not sure this is the right place to ask my question. Intel issued a PR on its new 8th generation desk top CPUs today. Intel Unveils the 8th Gen Intel Core Processor Family for Desktop, Featuring Intel’s Best Gaming Processor Ever | Intel Newsroom I think at least part of the gaming improvement is much better vector and floating point engines. The part I do not understand is that the lowest price I3 has 4 cores but only 4 threads. Does this mean the I3 has less memory bandwidth?

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    I believe it is essentially the i5 7600K.

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    Yes, it will come to an end, at some point you will hit a brick wall. The van-der Waals radius of a SiO2 molecule is 0.3 nm, resist molecules are much larger (line edge roughness!) and you won't be able to split molecules into half. I predict that 3 nm will be the practical limit of what is profitable. It may be lower, but there *will* be a limit. Assuming a roughly 30% reduction as usual, that means, we will have some 3-4 technology nodes left before we hit 1 nm. Or one to two tech nodes until we hit 3 nm below the 5 nm currently in R&D...

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