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Thread: AMD 7nm in August 2018: What foundry?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post
    Risk production for GF 7LP starts in Q2 2018. It usually takes 1 year to go from risk to high volume production (HVM) which puts HVM in Q2 2019 . Thus actual products fabbed at GF 7LP are unlikely to arrive before Q3 2019.
    In the meanwhile TSMC should start risk production end of 2017 and have volume production in the first half of 2018 (6-9 months). GF should be just 2 quarters late, since they start risk production in the first half of 2018. Applying the same logic, we should expect volume production by end of 2018, but let's say Q1 2019. That's still 6 months earlier than what you are guessing.
    At the end, I just wanted to know if you had some first hand details. But I guess not, it looks like it was just your feeling.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by astilo View Post
    Ryzen on 14LPP was a great success (they have 16 cores/32 threads running above 4GHz, very cost effective, good density and high yield). I see no reason to change foundry for them.
    I do not like monopoly.
    For AMD to gain market shares in CPU and GPU, the main consideration is the performance of the chips are up to par with competition and cost competitive. The key factor here is yield, tsmc may charge more but if their yield is significantly better then the decision is a no brainer.

    Its been out in the market for more than a year now, tsmc 7nm yield and performance is out of the chart. Its very unlike their situation with 10nm. Furthermore, if from EYPC innovation to leading Intel in zen2 aka "Rome" they need a complete revamp of micro architecture. Compared with tsmc lead in yield and process maturity in FE plus ground braking tech in 3DIC, my guess is simple -->
    AMD CPU design with new architecture +tsmc 7nm yield maturity +new advance packaging knowhow will win the next round of datacenter refresh.

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    Last edited by ryeoh1969; 1 Week Ago at 07:04 AM. Reason: error with content
     

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryeoh1969 View Post
    Its been out in the market for more than a year now, tsmc 7nm yield and performance is out of the chart.
    Well, considering TSMC 7nm risk production is planned for end of the year (2017), I do not know where did you get that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astilo View Post
    Well, considering TSMC 7nm risk production is planned for end of the year (2017), I do not know where did you get that.
    Of course from the rumor mills.....and the likes of Qualcomm switching camp and their 7nm taping out like mad

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    Last edited by ryeoh1969; 1 Week Ago at 09:04 AM. Reason: add some words
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by astilo View Post
    Well, considering TSMC 7nm risk production is planned for end of the year (2017), I do not know where did you get that.
    TSMC started risk production of 7nm in May this year.

    But I dont think AMD will use TSMC 7nm in 2018 because the fabs will be full of smaller mobile chips that have higher volumen and yields.

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    Smaller or mobile? Choose one but don't use both.

    Mobile SOCs are normally over 120 mm2 (2016 Iphone was 125 mm2 IIRC). It is similar size as Intel desktop 4-core processors (such as 7700K). So I don't think that there is any significant difference given by their size.

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  7. #17
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    No, they are normally under 100mm^2.

    Anyway other designers will take all the initial volume in 2018. They are using GF 12nm for their 2017 products.

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lodix View Post
    TSMC started risk production of 7nm in May this year.

    But I dont think AMD will use TSMC 7nm in 2018 because the fabs will be full of smaller mobile chips that have higher volumen and yields.
    Are you sure? Maybe initial tape-outs in May, risk production seems a bit premature to me, since I would assume that the very first 7nm product will be as usual the September 2018 iPhone SoC.

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  9. #19
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    From their q1 earnings:
    Now let's move to N7 and N7 Plus. TSMC N7 will enter risk production in second quarter this year. So far we have more than 30 customers actively engaged in N7 and we expect about 15 tape-outs in this year with volume production in 2018.
    From q2, answer regarding volume ramp-up.
    Yes, we estimate it's still about a year, not really the technology on our side. It's really on their design, product qualification and system verification get to the market. It typically takes that long. Although for the mobile, it's about one year. Some of the high-performance computing or PC application will be shorter. So -- but that 7 and 7+, I don't see much difference in the lead time up to the volume.
    September Iphone release is not usually first product on new process. This year it was Ipad in Q2 and even earlier some Android devices at the end of Q1.

    September Iphone release is driven by Apple marketing (update cycle). It has no relation to process availability.

    Plus you probably did not realized, that respin in fab takes several weeks (maybe even months here). Plus They need time to integrate and test it into PCB. So any mobile phone release is not such a credible sign of process maturity.

    For 7nm there will be Xilinx probably as early adopter. They are not driven by marketing and they relay mostly on pure silicon and packaging availability, so you can take a look at their announcements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astilo View Post
    Are you sure? Maybe initial tape-outs in May, risk production seems a bit premature to me, since I would assume that the very first 7nm product will be as usual the September 2018 iPhone SoC.
    Remember, TSMC 7nm is using the 10nm fabs that are already in mass production so I do not expect delays due to yield. Many 7nm tape-outs including QCOM and Apple have already been completed so I expect to see TSMC 7nm chips in the first half of 2018. GF is about 6 months behind so the second half of 2018 is possible. But remember GF did not do 10nm so they will be starting with a greenfab.

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