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Thread: World Medical Needs a Foundry/Cloud Model, 18Trillion Market

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanD View Post
    Lawyers? Estate agents (realtors)? Auditors?

    Maybe you're right and the tech sector could force change on the US medical system, but I suspect that this will replace one group of firms ripping people off and getting rich on the result with another group of firms doing the same but rather more cheaply and efficiently -- but still costing more and providing a poorer service than socialised systems where caring for patients is the #1 priority, not making money out of them (and which can just as easily take advantage of new technology).
    IanD, the difference is that if the tech sector builds it, it has to compete with tech sectors the world over that can build the same products and solutions, unlike our health sector that has no competition. Even diagnostics and remote surgery could be done from overseas if the US medical sector had not bought off the government to avoid any real competition, like Medicare has to done in the US to pay. If we could have the option of being done outside our borders and split the savings there would be true competition, which the US medical sector has the government through the control of money and regulations maintains a very abusive monopoly. I deeply appreciate your view points, point counter point is the best way to reach solutions in almost everything, sort of like GAN AI. Thanks

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    Last edited by Arthur Hanson; 1 Week Ago at 03:22 PM.
     

  2. #12
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    Socialism is not the point here. There are 1st world countries with way better medical systems and lower costs - not a socialist in sight. Take a look at Switzerland. That system (which incidentally was a model for the ACA, although the ACA was hopelessly compromised by the time it was shipped) is designed around private choices mixed with intelligent actuarial principles. So, policies do not cover you for ordinary expenses (your insurer is not in the middle of the retail chain, like here) and deductibles are relatively high, does cover you for catastrophes, and everyone is required to have insurance. A bit like drivers require insurance, so does anyone expecting to use the health system. But since individuals choose the insurers, and individuals pay a lot of the expenses, the market is at work even while the principles of insurance (shared exceptional risk over a broad population) are in effect and the products offered must meet a definitional minimum.

    Of course it helps that Switzerland has a population willing to think about the issues involved. In the ACA the general approach was mimicked but (especially with the current administration) all the important bits are upside down. The companies vie to become middlemen for all your everyday transactions, they take away your choice of practitioner, they exclude coverage for ruinous scenarios, and they are free to exclude anyone who actually shows risks. In short, they are leeches not a healthcare system.

    If you benchmark the waste in our healthcare (the difference between what we pay and what a basket of the next 12 richest large countries pay - all for better outcomes than us) then we waste about 6% of our GDP relative to the WORST of them. Never mind the stars like Switzerland, which has an essentially universal private care system. That is over twice the size of corporate taxes, or about 75% of income taxes. And of course that money is paid by the broad gainfully employed workforce and their employers (the poor are not paying, either struggling along in misery, or covered by medicare, again paid by .. guess who) so this is a burden of waste which is a massive handicap on our economy. Fixing this would give us back almost as much as cancelling personal income taxes.

    The "socialism" argument is just a distraction by those who want us not to solve this. After all, it is the biggest feeding trough out there.

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanj View Post
    Socialism is not the point here. There are 1st world countries with way better medical systems and lower costs - not a socialist in sight. Take a look at Switzerland. That system (which incidentally was a model for the ACA, although the ACA was hopelessly compromised by the time it was shipped) is designed around private choices mixed with intelligent actuarial principles. So, policies do not cover you for ordinary expenses (your insurer is not in the middle of the retail chain, like here) and deductibles are relatively high, does cover you for catastrophes, and everyone is required to have insurance. A bit like drivers require insurance, so does anyone expecting to use the health system. But since individuals choose the insurers, and individuals pay a lot of the expenses, the market is at work even while the principles of insurance (shared exceptional risk over a broad population) are in effect and the products offered must meet a definitional minimum.

    Of course it helps that Switzerland has a population willing to think about the issues involved. In the ACA the general approach was mimicked but (especially with the current administration) all the important bits are upside down. The companies vie to become middlemen for all your everyday transactions, they take away your choice of practitioner, they exclude coverage for ruinous scenarios, and they are free to exclude anyone who actually shows risks. In short, they are leeches not a healthcare system.

    If you benchmark the waste in our healthcare (the difference between what we pay and what a basket of the next 12 richest large countries pay - all for better outcomes than us) then we waste about 6% of our GDP relative to the WORST of them. Never mind the stars like Switzerland, which has an essentially universal private care system. That is over twice the size of corporate taxes, or about 75% of income taxes. And of course that money is paid by the broad gainfully employed workforce and their employers (the poor are not paying, either struggling along in misery, or covered by medicare, again paid by .. guess who) so this is a burden of waste which is a massive handicap on our economy. Fixing this would give us back almost as much as cancelling personal income taxes.

    The "socialism" argument is just a distraction by those who want us not to solve this. After all, it is the biggest feeding trough out there.
    Tanj, I definitely agree with you on the Swiss system that I have studied extensively. Swiss hospitals are set up for highly efficient care, unlike our own. Also the Swiss don't have nearly the obesity problem we have. They have true competition among insurers and have the right to switch during an open enrollment period of the year. Singapore is another country that has a highly efficient system. One thing that has to be required in the US is individual responsibility. Gangs consume huge amount of medical resources with shootings that are largely the result of failing prohibitions where medical problems are converted at staggering cost into criminal problems when alcohol c2h5oh alcohol is one of the most very dangerous drugs being a non specific solvent that attacks every part of the body. The US has many unique problems along with a highly dysfunctional medical, criminal, bad diet with no individual responsibility requirement combined with mandatory free emergency medical that have made the US a unique total mess where everyone from medical to law enforcement to individuals and gangs all contribute to a terrible economic mess.

    The bottom line and point of this forum is that it is a staggering market that is growing from population increase and aging for semis/mems/nanotech that the tech industry which drives technology, costs and functionality like no other industry while US medical is the worst ranking 37th in quality and 1st in costs.

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    Last edited by Arthur Hanson; 13 Hours Ago at 07:24 AM.
     

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