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Thread: Tohsiba Develops World Changing Battery

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    Tohsiba Develops World Changing Battery

    Toshiba has developed what looks to be a world changing battery for electric vehicles, that is so dramatic it could will impact the world to the point it will also change everything else. If Toshiba's claims are even close to accurate, this will change everything that uses a combustion engine of any type. This will also change the world of electronics. It this battery can be put into mass production shortly, this will be the ultimate world changing technology and will create entirely new classes and families of products. I hope the report is accurate and doesn't leave anything out.

    Plus, I see this of use in the new electric airplane Boeing is backing.

    Toshiba's new fast-charging battery could triple the range of electric vehicles

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    Last edited by Arthur Hanson; 10-09-2017 at 08:22 PM.
     

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    You did notice that the "tripling of range" only applies if you have a very short time (e.g. 6 minutes) to charge the battery?

    Fully-charged capacity (range) is maybe 30% higher than Li-ion, which is no great breakthrough.

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    I did notice that, it's the recharge rate without destroying the battery that is the big deal. Also remember this is the first generation of this battery and you can expect significant improvements to come, just like any other battery we have seen. I also believe we will have super multilayer batteries in the future using 2D and similar materials that will charge as fast as you can dump power into them.

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    Agreed that the faster recharging rate is an advantage, though don't forget that if you want to charge a 32kWh battery pack in 6 minutes you need a 320kW power supply...

    Of course once there are a lot of EVs this doesn't matter, the average power feed to the "electric station" is the same once you have multiple vehicles no matter how fast they charge; a 1MW feed from the grid will charge 1 32kWh car every 2 minutes, which could be 3 cars at the same time with 6 minutes charge time each or 9 cars with 18 minutes each -- in fact it would be cheaper with faster charging because 3x fewer charging bays are needed, and a 3x current capacity bay doesn't cost 3x as much.

    But until then it puts the cost of (mostly-empty) charging stations (and the mains feed to them) through the roof because the peak power demand is so high.

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    There are several options for power from a compact nuclear reactor, natural gas turbine or fuel cell. Also this could allow for interesting business models based on swapping out batteries that where charged off hours. It will be interesting to see further specs on the battery such as power density per kilogram/liter type measurements. No matter how you cut it this offers another option for storing power and the more options we have the better. The more diverse the power supply and storage methods the better. New business models and technologies will give us myriad of options in the future which is a good thing. Right now a series hybrid with a fuel cell or hyper efficient OPOC engine is my favorite choice.

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    IanD,

    Also, industrial and commercial areas are wired for heavy power usage with room for expansion, plus they pay a commercial rate for power that's generally substantially cheaper, since much of the cost is not generation, but distribution. This would solve most of the problems you are talking about. This battery would also be ideal for delivery vehicles who could be charged while loading and terminals are generally located in industrial areas with heavy and low cost power requirements. In fact many industrial areas are using new by wind power for generation currently, that is very, very low cost. The solutions to the obstacles you bring up are numerous and increasing by the day due to new and changing technology and imaginative use of existing structures. The only limits to solutions are by limits in a vision of what's already here and what can be here. Thirty percent in one generation is very significant, when just three years ago the experts were predicting just 6%/year improvement. The "Great Acceleration" is here and changing everything. We can not be bound by the past.

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    Last edited by Arthur Hanson; 10-10-2017 at 09:41 AM.
     

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    FYI - this is from an R&D group, not Production, so if this battery technology makes it out of the labs could take several years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Hanson View Post
    There are several options for power from a compact nuclear reactor, natural gas turbine or fuel cell. Also this could allow for interesting business models based on swapping out batteries that where charged off hours. It will be interesting to see further specs on the battery such as power density per kilogram/liter type measurements. No matter how you cut it this offers another option for storing power and the more options we have the better. The more diverse the power supply and storage methods the better. New business models and technologies will give us myriad of options in the future which is a good thing. Right now a series hybrid with a fuel cell or hyper efficient OPOC engine is my favorite choice.
    Agreed that more storage options is a good thing. But fuel cells are terribly inefficient "well-to-wheel" (or "renewable-to-wheel") compared to batteries, and with increasing shift to low-energy-density renewables we need to maximise efficiency. OPOC is just another IC engine, smaller and lighter but with less than half the efficiency of BEV.

    So your favourite choices are not good ones for efficient future transport based on renewable energy.

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    The Prius is here and now in mass and is the most efficient vehicle in mass use right now. Hybrids still have great room for improvement in the power generation department and can adapt to either plug in power or be independent. They are currently the only viable option for all circumstances and will improve dramatically in all respects from better power generation options, better batteries and even more efficient electric motors. Hybrids also hold the option of being an integral part of the grid itself. Even diesels with advanced CAD systems are changing radically and offer new options, check out the link below. Also Mazda is coming out with a new gas engine that uses the diesel cycle for a thirty percent increase in efficiency in one shot, thanks to advanced computer controls. I believe a series hybrid will be the interim step and maybe the final step for the generator portion will be very small, compact, light and extremely efficient.

    Game-changing Yanmar 50 hp turbo diesel outboard motor begins production

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    Last edited by Arthur Hanson; 10-10-2017 at 06:47 PM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Hanson View Post
    The Prius is here and now in mass and is the most efficient vehicle in mass use right now. Hybrids still have great room for improvement in the power generation department and can adapt to either plug in power or be independent. They are currently the only viable option for all circumstances and will improve dramatically in all respects from better power generation options, better batteries and even more efficient electric motors. Hybrids also hold the option of being an integral part of the grid itself. Even diesels with advanced CAD systems are changing radically and offer new options, check out the link below. Also Mazda is coming out with a new gas engine that uses the diesel cycle for a thirty percent increase in efficiency in one shot, thanks to advanced computer controls. I believe a series hybrid will be the interim step and maybe the final step for the generator portion will be very small, compact, light and extremely efficient.

    Game-changing Yanmar 50 hp turbo diesel outboard motor begins production
    If by "efficiency" you mean "well-to-wheel" (or "renewable-to-wheel") the Prius is clearly not the most efficient vehicle on sale today, high-end BEV like Tesla are.

    Even if you mean "fuel efficiency" there are various diesel hybrids which are more efficient than the Prius, which is not surprising since the Prius's Atkinson-cycle engine is less efficient than a modern common-rail diesel and it doesn't really have enough battery capacity.

    ("efficient" meaning power-out vs. fuel-calorific-value-in, not "mpg" -- the Prius has good mpg because it's low-powered)

    Series hybrids in cars are generally less efficient than parallel hybrids because of all the losses in the multistage power conversion.

    BEVs are overall more efficient than either -- even if the power comes from fossil-fuel power stations -- because the power stations are a lot more efficient than any IC engine that will fit into a car.

    If the BEV energy comes from renewables then this is obviously better from the CO2 point of view than any IC engine, hybrid or otherwise.

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