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Thread: Any Word on Crossbar vs 3dXpoint Memory?

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    Any Word on Crossbar vs 3dXpoint Memory?

    Any input on the state of 3dXpoint vs Crossbar memory would be appreciated. I know TSMC was working on Crossbar and looking at using it for onboard memory on some chips? Optane is selling, but it seems cost is a major factor. If anyone also has a timeline or other uses for these technologies, could you please post. Any chance that either technology could be used in the possible Automata computer structure

    New forms of specialized memory with new ways of accessing and using it are going to be key to the AI/ML revolution and these seem to be the two leaders that will see reality. Any other thoughts or observations of the interface of memory and AI/ML of all types would be appreciated. This is a new frontier and their are many devices and approaches yet to be seen, so almost nothing can be considered outside the realm of reality, for at this point we just don't know what is over the horizon.

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    Last edited by Arthur Hanson; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:20 AM.
     

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    I hear vaguely from someone possibly with an NDA that it Xpoint not that great; it does not perform on any metric as wonderfully as claimed. So perhaps it is safe to say be careful about assuming how great Xpoint performs; no idea as to the cause of the presumed problem.

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    Aside for a few niches and enthusiasts that will buy the newest tech regardless of price/performance 3DXpoint has had a minimal market impact. I think it'll still be a few years before we see any kind of mainstream adaption, once competition brings down prices.

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    Did you ever follow the various Phase Change Memory (PCM) announcements, and subsequent discussions in the eeTimes comments sections -- including the "fake/ dummy phone", supposedly bought retail, yet somehow containing PCM?

    There seemed to be some very good reasons why PCM hadn't, and -- was never going to -- make it in high volumes.

    But, then, Intel said 3D XPoint wasn't PCM.

    Then ChipWorks produced some cross section EM images which seemed to show that it was chalcogenide-based PCM.

    Who knows. But it might have been better if Intel had described how the technology works.

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    It all makes me think of bubble memory from TI. INTC does need to come clean in order to earn bragging rights. It is not like they are exactly seen as trustworthy in our post-Meltdown world. Is the Micron JV the same technology?

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    Chipper, Micron bought out Intel and is now in full control of the technology and says it will be in mass production 2H/2019. Intel has been selling it under the Optane name for over a year.

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    Thanks! Now lets see them ramp.

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    New news, 3dXpoint must be real and ready for prime time for Qualcomm is planning on using it and I have no doubt the Qualcomm engineers have been given a very inside look at the technology to have given such an important commitment and found it to be a leading edge technology.

    Micron Works With Qualcomm to Enable 5G Automotive Platform for Next-Generation Vehicles - NASDAQ.com

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    New news, 3dXpoint must be real and ready for prime time for Qualcomm is planning on using it and I have no doubt the Qualcomm engineers have been given a very inside look at the technology to have given such an important commitment and found it to be a leading edge technology.

    Micron Works With Qualcomm to Enable 5G Automotive Platform for Next-Generation Vehicles - NASDAQ.com

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    Top Influencer U235's Avatar
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    I couldn't see 3D XPoint mentioned in that announcement?

    "Micron created a portfolio of ultra-small 8x9.5mm, 149 ball count multichip package (MCP) solutions with SLC NAND plus LPDDR4 rated at automotive temperature grade to pair with the Snapdragon Automotive 5G Platform.."

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    U235, your right, but there must be some differentiator that made Qualcomm choose Micron over the others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by U235 View Post
    I couldn't see 3D XPoint mentioned in that announcement?

    "Micron created a portfolio of ultra-small 8x9.5mm, 149 ball count multichip package (MCP) solutions with SLC NAND plus LPDDR4 rated at automotive temperature grade to pair with the Snapdragon Automotive 5G Platform.."
    PCM crystallizes at automotive temperature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Chen View Post
    PCM crystallizes at automotive temperature.
    Hi, I cannot comment on U235, but regarding PCM crystallization temperature, with the right material, PCM can work at automotive temperature.
    Please see ST contribution to IEDM 2018 on automotive microcontroller using PCM as memory.
    They made a press release
    STMicroelectronics Now Sampling Embedded PCM for Automotive Microcontrollers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvain Maitrejean View Post
    Hi, I cannot comment on U235, but regarding PCM crystallization temperature, with the right material, PCM can work at automotive temperature.
    Please see ST contribution to IEDM 2018 on automotive microcontroller using PCM as memory.
    They made a press release
    STMicroelectronics Now Sampling Embedded PCM for Automotive Microcontrollers
    Yes the crystallization temperature is between 100 and 150 C but this may be raised by nitrogen doping: https://www.researchgate.net/profile...ication_detail but nowhere near the solder reflow condition.

    Leti must be using the Ge-rich GST which was published some time ago: http://www.cea.fr/cea-tech/leti/Docu...202017/2.1.pdf, https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/46808239.pdf

    If they can tolerate the high (3-4V) voltage and current (400 uA), good for them.

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