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Thread: ? on 3D Xpoint vs other RRAM memory

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    ? on 3D Xpoint vs other RRAM memory

    Does anyone in the community have a take on 3D Xpoint memory versus other RRAM memory projects, both in performance and time to market?

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    There's a good summary of opinions on what the 3D Xpoint memory could be here. Intel and Micron claim that their new memory is NOT ReRAM, not memristor. Some think that it is a Conductive Bridging RAM or CBRAM.

    When the first products get introduced later this year, then we'll see which markets pick it up first. My guess is that they will first aim at replacing SSD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Payne View Post
    My guess is that they will first aim at replacing SSD.
    I'm thinking that this memory will go to the ones who pay premium until production and trust is ramped up to ssd volumes. Its advantage is not in the density dimension, but rather the fast and non complex writing afaik. Depending on price, it could replace SRAM I guess.

    Does anyone know what interface this memory will run at? Personally I'd like to see high speed random word-access for SRAM competition.

    Edit:Anyone know if this memory type does destructive reads?

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    Last edited by ost; 08-23-2015 at 11:55 PM. Reason: Additional Q
     

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    There was a lot of material released at IDF last week - but it's not in the slides, you had to be in the meeting room to capture the details from Q&A sessions. Fortunately I captured it all here: https://blogs.synopsys.com/committed...ails-revealed/

    Short summary of your specific questions:
    - They are targeting a 2016 launch, both for the devices and for Xeon CPUs that can access them
    - They could be available either in an SSD form factor (NVMe) or in a DIMM form factor (on the DDR4 bus)
    - They are much faster than NAND, but about an order of magnitude longer latency than DRAM
    - Nobody has definitively said what the technology is, but the Q&A gives some clues on what it's not

    Hope this helps,

    Marc

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    Quote Originally Posted by ost View Post
    I'm thinking that this memory will go to the ones who pay premium until production and trust is ramped up to ssd volumes. Its advantage is not in the density dimension, but rather the fast and non complex writing afaik. Depending on price, it could replace SRAM I guess.

    Does anyone know what interface this memory will run at? Personally I'd like to see high speed random word-access for SRAM competition.

    Edit:Anyone know if this memory type does destructive reads?
    SRAM is faster than DRAM, by a lot, and DRAM is faster than Xpoint. Of course, that's latency, and no interface is going to overcome that. Latency is the big problem, bandwidth can be overcome with more channels, which increase latency a little, so having low latency is really the key. Also, increasing bandwidth right now wouldn't improve CPU performance much at all, although certainly would help the GPU portion of it, if it has one.

    I do not believe it has destructive reads, as nothing has indicated it does. Even the writes are supposed to have 1000x what NAND has. So, I think it's very, very unlikely it would have destructive reads.

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    Bulk change is the hint

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Hanson View Post
    Does anyone in the community have a take on 3D Xpoint memory versus other RRAM memory projects, both in performance and time to market?
    It is said by Intel to be a change of the whole bulk material (not a part or component) between the electrodes, it looks like a new phase change material (not the original PCM). So it could be some time before we know enough about it. Retention is naturally a concern.

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    Last edited by Fred Chen; 08-28-2015 at 05:13 AM.
     

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    Micron also mentioned a New Memory B to come out in 2017. The spotlight on 3D XPoint won't last very long.

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    Cross-point architecture and the ability to stack is a big deal and will be around for a long time. I'd guess that New Memory B is just a different bitcell but still within a 3D cross-point array. Certainly lithography isn't going to change significantly by 2017, so maybe by then they will have worked out the bugs in PCM, but they (Numonyx) have been saying that for the last decade or so. Has anyone noticed Ed Doller (Numonyx CTO/Micron VP) is no longer with Micron since April?

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    Certainly lithography isn't going to change significantly by 2017
    DSA would be preferred for this cross-point array in my opinion.

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    The repeated crosspoint patterning should be shunned here just like the dreaded multiple patterning in the usual lithography sense. It might be even worse, given that each level requires (at least) double patterning (for 10-20 nm-class) and the density scales linearly with the number of patterning steps unlike the lithography sense where it is more nonlinear.

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